Curse

Dentenko · Nov 13, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It was a good idea, but implemented very poorly. They shouldn't have targeted just AoE. Until Empathy, Backfire and the like are treated in the similar manner as AoEs now, I will continue to be displeased.

I agree whole heartedly.

Mahanaxar · Nov 13, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Just like in a real PvP match when i set off an AoE the enemies flee to safety and return once it is over. If you care to disagree then make a PvP character and test it out in the arenas. The only ones standing in the AoE are the stupid ones.

Many ppl don't get the point.

Why pve should be supposed to be like real pvp?

If I want pvp enemies, I go pvp.

And once again, I have NEVER seen anyone in tomb/arenas run like a chicken from a throw dirt, kindle arrow, unholy feast, fireball...the list is really long.

aron searle · Nov 13, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Anyways this argument either way is moot now and probably should be closed. Anet has said the new AI is staying with more to come. If you are offended or can not adapt then go to another game where farming is allowed or even encouraged. I want my games hard and challenging. Not that this update made it any harder for a full team. It is quite exploitable but no more than PvPing.

well thats a good argument.

Yes lets get rid of some of our playerbase, that will make the game healthear.

you may not like them, (i dont agree with some of them at all) but i find this "go away" attitude rather silly, do you really want to encourage people to stop playing?

And im actually serios about this, not all farmers JUST farm. they also play the game, help other guildees / friends out.

And before you argue "i dont care their stupid, i want them to go", just think they are not ALL stupid.

Telling people to stop playing is not good for the game, and not a very good argument in defense of the game.

meranlliril · Nov 13, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

this game is no harder than it was the day i got it.... which... was the release date... all they have acomplished is putting people off the game... making people loose faith in anet games and their respective games.. and make the enemies annoying... NOT harder... like i said... i see my self as a crap player..... im no good at pvp... i die horribly and quickly unless im using my monk... then i just sit their and laugh at the opponents futile attempts at killing me.. all i did to my invinci monks build is to change a whopping 3 skills and its as easy as it was...

i dont party play any more so i dont know... i can do most missions in the game on my own with my monk and my warrior... the ones i cant i just get a healer hench to follow me.. but ive been told the missions are alot harder now... and the newer players cant do it.. by agreeing to their new updates you are admitting to being a selfish twat who thinks the game should be exclusive to adults and people who spend their lives in the game..

fachtna · Nov 13, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I get up at 5.45am, have a horrendous commute to work on a motorbike, a 10 hour day dealing with arrogant people (refer to "stupid" post), a horrendous commute home on a motorbike. get in around 7.00pm. Washed out. get something to eat, start playing at 7.30pm.

At this point, i want to have a relaxing game, chatting to my mates and killing things (at this point, i am tempted to say: refer to "stupid" post). Ok, so the PvE is easy. So what? If you want a challenge, go PvP or GvG. I like easy, is stress free.

Bear in mind, this game is intended to capture an audience from 12+. Whilst most of us have clocked up serious hours learning the game (over 900 hours for me), the skills, builds etc, I dont see why, when you hit on a build that works for you, you get called "stupid" when you point out that it has been stuffed up. Ok, i will change the build and skillset and have as much fun, but why should I? Cos ArenaNet said that there was an imbalance in PvE and PvP? Again, i say "so what?". Its 2 different styles of gaming so let there be two modes of play. I seriously dont see too many 12+ year olds enjoying GW as it stands.

I enjoy this game for the trading (even though the economy is seriously stuffed up) and to get trade materials, I farm. After nearly 14 hours on the go during my working day, its both easy and enjoyable. It will still be easy, but less enjoyable. I ENJOYED watching a double meteor shower as my e/me and shouting "Feel ma POWAH" and the party having a laugh. Thats gone. Why? Cos some brainiac thought it was a good idea.

Someone asked why monsters should be stupid, i say why shouldnt they? Its not as if a Hulking STONE Elemental, or an overgrown mutant skorpion has much in the way of an IQ.

GW have a lot of things very very right about this game, and some very very wrong. Their latest patch was one of the latter.

I also have to question this thread. All we are doing is ranting, and one really not very nice person insulting, to ne effect. We will all adapt our play styles/builds/skillsets/strategies and get on with it. ArenaNet dont care about our ranting. They see it as an improvement, and i cant see them backing out the update.

I am gonna show my feelings through my wallet. I have cancelled the pre-order for Chapter 2, and I know a LOT of people doing the same. Lets see
if ArenaNet take any notice of that, cos they arent taking any notice of their players opinions....

calamitykell · Nov 13, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by fachtna

*snip*

I'll buy an extra copy for you.

Do you think ANet won't fix up some fire skills? Is that what this is about?

Remember when Protective Bond was the all-important skill to farm? Thank god ANet didn't tweak it!

Remember all that Spirit Spamming in HoH? Thank god ANet didn't touch spirits!

Remember how Water Magic was pretty much useless? Thank god ANet didn't make Water skills better!

This isn't aimed at you directly fachtna, but to everyone who thinks the fire skills are useless forever:

Have you even been paying attention at what ANet has been doing for us since the game was released?!

edit: Summary.

ArenaNet has continuously tweaked skills that had a negative effect on playing, or were popularly thought "useless." Their buff to the Water Magic line is a clear indication that they [b]do[/i] listen to us and see how the game is being played.

Now, this time Fire Magic was affected as an unintended result. They admitted they made a mistake in allowing such a group of skills to be rendered ineffective, and apologized. Do you think they won't fix it? Really?

I know when we all want something fixed, we want it right away. When our internet dies, we want it back up immediately. When our cable goes out for the tv, we want it back right away. We, as a collective people, are not very patient. But sometimes it takes time to get things fixed and stable. Just, give it a little time. The update isn't even 3 days old.

Please?

Loviatar · Nov 13, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

So uh... your suggestion is already there. >.>

same idea but the one you mention is a specific skill while my idea could be applied across lines and professions with adjustments

i would change the DOT AOE to reflect a different way of high damage for a very high cost skill with the ability of the mob to run out from repeated AOE skills .

as it is now you pay 25 energy 5 sec cast and exhaustion for maybe 29 damage and denying a small patch of ground in a very large area for maybe 10 seconds.

i would turn that into an airborne form of fireball (AOE) with about half the total damage including the burning while running from it with the same lower costs of fireball

aron searle · Nov 13, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

[QUOTE=fachtna
if ArenaNet take any notice of that, cos they arent taking any notice of their players opinions....[/QUOTE]

That has to be said

alot of people have complianed about the buggyness of this update, including me (lets sidestep all the other issues, this is the one that matters the most).

Instead of taking it back and brining it back when its properly tested, we are told that no it will not be taken back and we are to wait untill its all fixed.

hmmm and how long do we have to wait, untill they are back from the weekend ay??

calamitykell · Nov 13, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

same idea but the one you mention is a specific skill while my idea could be applied across lines and professions with adjustments

i would change the DOT AOE to reflect a different way of high damage for a very high cost skill with the ability of the mob to run out from repeated AOE skills .

as it is now you pay 25 energy 5 sec cast and exhaustion for maybe 29 damage and denying a small patch of ground in a very large area for maybe 10 seconds.

i would turn that into an airborne form of fireball (AOE) with about half the total damage including the burning while running from it with the same lower costs of fireball

Mmm, I think adding the 'on-fire' effect might be good for Firestorm, since they can flee from it unmolested for the most part. If I recall correctly though, doesn't Meteor Shower knock down? I don't know the gap between knockdowns, but does it need the 'on-fire' effect if they're knocked down repeatedly? (To reiterate, I don't know the gap between knockdowns, so maybe they CAN flee.) If they can, maybe they could shorten the time between knockdowns, and shorten the overall duration of the skill, but guage the damage up so it still does the same amount. Maybe give some enemies Balanced Stance so they can still flee from it? I dunno.

I think just adding the 'on-fire' effect to all the AoE's isn't a great idea. I think this opportunity should be taken to sort of make them unique in a way. But this is a much better line of discussion than simply "omg fix it!" "omg no, u adapt!" "omg f u, i r play fun, fix fix!" "hahah, noob cant adapt".

Le sigh...

Hendorr · Nov 13, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I like the updates

se7en18 · Nov 13, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Okay, for all of you saying that the update is good because it made things "harder", I understand your point. But then again, why have a character solely based upon AoE spells, (Fire elementalist), and then change the game to make that character completely useless. This patch didnt tweak the gameplay, it completely changed it. Go make another entire game if you are not pleased with the results of this one ANET, because you just completely made my Elementalist useless with my Ragos Flame Staff, so I'd like my 120k back please.. You can't just completely change the gameplay without adding a supplement, like more Fire Skills.

calamitykell · Nov 13, 2005, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by se7en18

why have a character solely based upon AOe spells, (Fire elementalist)

Water Magic
Earth Magic
Air Magic.

It's your choice to play Fire, it's not your only option. And have some faith, please. I am sure ANet will touch up fire skills so they're reliable again. I won't be disappointed if we start seeing other elements wanted in PUGs though. (ha, like that'd ever happen.

)

Loviatar · Nov 13, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fachtna

I
Someone asked why monsters should be stupid, i say why shouldnt they? Its not as if a Hulking STONE Elemental, or an overgrown mutant skorpion has much in the way of an IQ.

....

just to quibble a bit i would like to point out at even a brain dead anything thatfeels pain will move by reflex alone to get away from it.

it may not even think how can i avoid this but will simply move.

with even a small amount of brains it will look for a clear area to go.

just because you enjoyed a shooting gallery with the targets standing in one spot doesnt mean enouh think like you to make a real difference.

before getting your feathers ruffled think that they will be working on adjusting this for at least as long as the faction setup which took adjusting, seeing the effects and then more adjusting.

take a break or a few weeks and try it again to see the difference.

rince and repeat as it will be very different by the time chapter 2 comes out.

who knows you might fall in live with it again (or not)

fachtna · Nov 13, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I think the point has been missed.

As far as i see it, this thread isnt about whether fire ele's have been knackered, its about an unpopular update that has been implemented by ArenaNet.

Its about a poll to get an indication of player opinion on the update, and that has shown to be negative. Last time i looked, 54% werent in favour of it, with 5% stating they couldnt care. The people who actually thing it is fine the way it is, is in the minority.

MY gripe is that ArenaNet wont take this opinion poll into account. They will do their own thing regardless. As a result, 54% (and for arguements sake, call that an approximate indicator of ingame feeling of players not voting here) are pissed off.

Pissed off players leave. That simple.

People like the insulting redneck and company may think this a good thing. Get rid of the 100:1 moron ratio. Go play a game that is less challenging. Those sorts. But follow the scenario through for a bit....

(Worst case)
Several thousand players leave. Spread across the servers, this might be negligable. But, you have less people online to form parties with. And we all know hard it can be to get a decent team as it is. Thats less people inputting to the economy, fewer rare crafting materials/weapons etc. Prices go up. People get pissed off cos they cant afford that +30 health upgrade. (30k at present with farming knackered, how is a newbie supposed to get that). people leave. People tell their mates not to buy it. Eventually, ArenaNet revenue is gonna be hit and they may decide to pull the plug. They can afford to piss off people to an extent and have them leave, they have had the initial purchase, but they cant afford to alienate people from buying chapter 2.

How many parents are gonna buy their kids Chapter 2 when they are already kicking their pc in frustration.

(Best case)
Reverse the update.
Let those people who want a challenge go PvP, or to any other game where they are playing humans.
Let those who like playing the game to meet new people, to help out new people, to stop new players getting ripped off (50g for black !!! Is a good price, honest guv) continue in PvE. The 12 year olds appreciate the help.

As has been stated, farmers dont just farm, ele's dont just use fire. But ArenaNet DO just seem to value ArenaNets opinion.

Thank you, you have been a lovely audience

meranlliril · Nov 13, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

the funny thing is... in the reply from anet refering to the patch... they say that people were complaining that it was to easy and thus for being one of the reasons for the update... so... they claim they listen then? looking at the top of the page... at the poll..... it clearly shows more people HATE it than LOVE it.... if they really want to listen to the players.... then why refuse to back date... how long could it take to back date? surely they would have backups incase they feck up.... seems sensible... most companies back up on a seperate hard drive then back up the back up in a seperate building..

se7en18 · Nov 13, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Water Magic
Earth Magic
Air Magic.

It's your choice to play Fire, it's not your only option. And have some faith, please. I am sure ANet will touch up fire skills so they're reliable again. I won't be disappointed if we start seeing other elements wanted in PUGs though. (ha, like that'd ever happen.

)

Did you read my post?
I stated that my Elementalist was now useless "With my Ragos Flame Staff" implying to anyone with mediocre intelligence that this character is useless with Fire Magic only, not others.

Crotalus · Nov 13, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

well thats a good argument.

Yes lets get rid of some of our playerbase, that will make the game healthear.

you may not like them, (i dont agree with some of them at all) but i find this "go away" attitude rather silly, do you really want to encourage people to stop playing?

And im actually serios about this, not all farmers JUST farm. they also play the game, help other guildees / friends out.

And before you argue "i dont care their stupid, i want them to go", just think they are not ALL stupid.

Telling people to stop playing is not good for the game, and not a very good argument in defense of the game.

So they should make 10000+ post on how ArenaNet has ruined their life? ArenaNet said that this new AI will stay. Adapt or leave.

Honestly that wasn't against the legitmate farmers. It was against the solo farmers. If you want to farm get some guildies together and farm. Hell i was farming for 'Encrusted Lodestones' when this patch came out. I did it with henchies but still a full party.

Coincidently since this new update came out i am getting better drops in some of explorable areas. Has anyone seen this or am i just having some luck?

BTW, i have seen some of the same arguments from PvPers when they didnt get UAS at retail (ie fix it or you are going to be sorry grrr!!). I didnt take them serious and i dont take you guys serious.

Have fun with your new game.

calamitykell · Nov 13, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by fachtna

As far as i see it, this thread isnt about whether fire ele's have been knackered, its about an unpopular update that has been implemented by ArenaNet.

I'll say it once:

What is popular isn't always right, and what is right isn't always popular.

fachtna · Nov 13, 2005, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

it may not even think how can i avoid this but will simply move.

with even a small amount of brains it will look for a clear area to go.

you ever seen a pitbull with its jaws locked and getting kicked in the nads. It has brains, but not enough to let go and run away.

stone elementals SHOULD be stupid. renegade elementals shouldnt. if they want realism (christ, realism in a fantasy RPG) let the humanoids be that bit smarter.

as an experiment, take a level 7 character outside sardelac and turn left. watch from how far the elementals come (waaaay outside ur aggro circle). now when you have 7 of them beating you, think, hmmm. AoE. Now its a defensive spell. launch firestorm, or any AoE, and they run away. then you just whip out a few fireballs, and done.

AAAARGH. keep getting sidetracked. This is a thread about opinions of the update, not a critical analyses of individual game styles....

entropy · Nov 13, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

So they should make 10000+ post on how ArenaNet has ruined their life? ArenaNet said that this new AI will stay. Adapt or leave.

Honestly that wasn't against the legitmate farmers. It was against the solo farmers. If you want to farm get some guildies together and farm. Hell i was farming for 'Encrusted Lodestones' when this patch came out. I did it with henchies but still a full party.

Coincidently since this new update came out i am getting better drops in some of explorable areas. Has anyone seen this or am i just having some luck?

BTW, i have seen some of the same arguments from PvPers when they didnt get UAS at retail (ie fix it or you are going to be sorry grrr!!). I didnt take them serious and i dont take you guys serious.

Have fun with your new game.

I haven't like all the changes anet's made. The nerf to fragility when it was perfectly fine. So solo farmers aren't legit??? If they are gonna make it so that you can't solo farm the drops have to increase 8x. Well anet will see. Farmers are a huge part of the community whether you like it or not.